Question & Answer Board

 Q3504 RR Lantern??  Any ideas if this is an old railroad lantern? No markings on it.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, August 8, 2018 by JB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This looks like mabe an acetylene-fueled lamp. Does the burner have a wick, or just a tube (which would bring up the gas to burn if it is acetylene.) Posted Wednesday, August 8, 2018 by RJMc

A. The lens to intensely focus the light, along with the chimney arrangement, makes me think this might be the light source for a projector, such as for lantern slides. It does not look like a RR item.  Posted Thursday, August 9, 2018 by RJMc

A. The photos might be misleading. Is the fairly large, oval gray part on the bottom connected to the light? Or maybe just a can, or something else, you set the light on to take the pic? Posted Thursday, August 9, 2018 by RJMc

A. Here is the description of ONE PATENT that was patented on April 24 1883, does this match the smoke dome?  Link 1  Posted Thursday, August 9, 2018 by JMS

A. SORRY - I meant to post the above reply in the next question down.  Posted Friday, August 10, 2018 by JMS

 Q3503 CVRR Armspear Lantern??  I have this CVRR but no makers mark, only patent dates. Is it an Armspear? Those dates shown and CVRR are not in the database. Any info would be great. Add this marking to the Armspear data if you agree.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, August 7, 2018 by GS   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. There are two possibilities for CVRR: (1) Cumberland Valley which existed 1837-1919 and (2) Central Vermont RailROAD which existed 1848-1899, after which it was the Central Vermont RailWAY which lasted until 1995. Your frame appears to be an Armspear "Double Guard" a/k/a "Steel Guard" lantern, similar to the one shown on page 75 of "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Railroad Lighting, Vol. 1, The Railroad Lantern" by Richard Barrett. Barrett says these lanterns were introduced about 1891. Just an observation and I may be wrong, but the etching on the globe does not look like a pre-1900 job to me.  Posted Wednesday, August 8, 2018 by JMS

A.  Oops, I misread that patent date several times! It is April 24, 1883, not 1893, and that was a Tuesday. Still no help though in Barrett or from a US patent search by date. Given the Canadian influence on Central Vermont I still wonder if this was a Canadian manufacturer. Posted Thursday, August 9, 2018 by KM

A. KM you are correct on the little differences - I did notice the pictured lantern is a BT but should have seen that in the p.75 picture. Thank you for further info. I had no idea about the Mondays and Tuesdays patents - THANKS !! if only they would have printed the numbers.  Posted Thursday, August 9, 2018 by JMS

A.  I also looked at Armspear lanterns in Barrett and there are some differences between this lantern and the one shown on page 75. This lantern has a brass top and a flat bar stock base at the bottom. The one in the photo is a steel top with wire at the bottom. I tried to check that patent date in Barrett's list of "Selected Lantern Patents" and the April 24 1893 date is not shown, see page 335. I am not surprised though, all US patents are issued on Tuesdays, 4/24/1893 was a Monday. And that makes me wonder if this is a Canadian manufactured lantern and could that be a Canadian patent date? Posted Thursday, August 9, 2018 by KM

A. To redeem myself I decided to try to find the patent number - and think I have. Link 1 is for Google Books, a US Patent Office showing patents issued on April 24 1883. This starts on page 1531. On page 1539 a patent shows for #276,182 describing a new arrangement involving band(s), globe holders and bail handle. Please realize, this patent number applies to only a feature(s) on the lantern - this particular patent is not for the entire lantern. I MAY have missed another patent that is in fact the one referenced on GS's lantern, it is a bit to scroll through, and there may be another book (?). Link 2 is helpful instructions on how to conduct a search for a particular patent.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Thursday, August 9, 2018 by JMS

A. I checked the Patent link and it matches the globe holding mechanism present in my lantern. There is another Patent date on the base of the lantern above where the "Armspear" latch is located. MCH 19, '89. The lantern came from Chambersburg PA, the HQ for the CVRR. Years ago at an estate sale in a nearby town. Globe is maker unmarked, only the etching of CVRR, Macbeth perhaps, however no Macbeth or Corning mark. GS Posted Saturday, August 11, 2018 by GS

A.  Barrett lists March 19,1889 patent # 399944 to Furman D. Spears.  Posted Sunday, August 12, 2018 by KM

A. From your history it does sound 99.44% certain this lantern is from the Cumberland Valley. And KM, good catch on the 1889 patent. I finally figured out (on one of my locks some time ago) that multiple patent dates on a piece usually refer to different parts of it - not the entire item as a whole. I originally had thought the patents referred to the entire piece, I was wrong. Patent dates are a huge help identifying age - the latest one is the earliest year the piece can have been made; but it could be newer because a patent date is not a manufacturing date.  Posted Sunday, August 12, 2018 by JMS

A. This lantern is a product of the Railroad Signal Lamp & Lantern Co., of New York. RRSL&L Co. is an Armspear predecessor. This model with all flat members dates to the mid/late 1880s. Posted Monday, August 13, 2018 by ASwoyer

 Q3502 Lantern Marking  I have a question about a railroad lantern. It has the RR letters on it but they are not showing up on your database. Just wondering what that means. The letters are: C. ST P. N. & O. It is an A&W with a red Adlake Kero globe. Is that an original combination? It is a short globe lantern. Any info you can give me would be great. Thanks,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, August 7, 2018 by Jeff   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Hi; Hard to tell from your photo but possibly one letter, the "M", might not be correct or was mis-stamped. The lantern is from the Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis and Omaha Railroad. (C ST.P M & O) This railroad was and still is commonly called "The Omaha". The globe and frame might be original, but there is really no way of knowing as a replacement globe could have been added if the original broke, or another globe color was needed.  Posted Tuesday, August 7, 2018 by JEM

 Q3501 Non-Magnetic Handlan Lamp  I came across this interesting lamp a few weeks ago on eBay. I thought it was just a regular Handlan marker but once I received it I realized it is not made from steel. It is made from some other lightweight metal that is non magnetic. My friends at the Colorado Railroad Museum and I believe it to be made of tin. One of my friends is going to run a Spectrum analysis on it Monday and let me know for sure what it is. The entire lamp minus the hinge, the lens buckets, and bail ears is made out of this lightweight metal. I was just trying to see if you have seen or heard of a lamp like this? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, August 6, 2018 by Dusty   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Did you consider aluminum, or aluminum alloy? Some of the corrosion spots on the inside suggest that possibility. I note that the door says 'Rock Island Lines' to possibly help others who may have seen others like it.  Posted Monday, August 6, 2018 by RJMc

A. Just got the Spectrum analysis back and it is in fact aluminium. We all kinda ruled aluminium out as we figured the door and other parts would be more flimsy than they are if it were aluminium. There were trace amounts of zinc and copper as well. Please let me know if any of you have seen one like this. Thanks  Posted Monday, August 6, 2018 by Dusty

A. These lamps and most lanterns were produced by stamping out the parts and assembling them. The same dies used for stamping out the steel sheet could also stamp out brass, silver, or even gold sheet and occasionally they did so for special orders(and they formerly advertised this capability.) So of course they could also stamp out aluminum alloy sheet. All of the lamp manufacturers were well familiar with aluminum because they were making cast aluminum electric markers, class lights, and switch lights from very early on. But I think the key difference was that they were electric-lit and/or very thick parts. I suspect the reason your marker is so unusual is that the thin aluminum sheet would corrode away very rapidly under the influence of the hot, moist,sulfurous fumes from burning kerosene and the lamp would have a very short life in service. It is possible you have a test or prototype object, one of few made in a 'model shop' mode, maybe at the RR's request. Does your lamp show signs of being used? Posted Tuesday, August 7, 2018 by RJMc

A. There are signs of use. There is a light coating of soot but not much. Someone may have cleaned it as well though. Even the inner removable chimney is made from aluminium. There is a nice dent/ mark from the inside out from the burner pot being slammed into the back wall that shows age like it happened more than once. There are a few other dings here and there but being that it's aluminium it's not bad overall. Worse part is the top part that says Handlan is fairly wavy but seeing how I can flex that area by hand it's understandable. Im starting to lean towards it being prototype or a trial piece that they found out didn't hold up myself now. Posted Tuesday, August 7, 2018 by Dusty

 Q3499 Lantern/Lamp ID Needed  I recently bought this lantern but can't find one exactly like it. Was wondering if you know if it's old or just a replica? It is oil and there's no markers mark on it anywhere. Thanks .   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, July 26, 2018 by CW   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This appears to me to be a newly made decorator item. Maybe one of the India imports (?). The curlicue feet don't appear to be stable enough to hold an oil fire above them, and certainly the handle is too close to the heat that will be coming out the top when lit. Sorry!  Posted Thursday, July 26, 2018 by JMS

 Q3496 Dietz Empire Lantern  I would appreciate any history or knowledge you have of my grandfather's Dietz Empire lantern. He used it as a railroad surveyor prior to the depression. Thanks,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, July 22, 2018 by Mark   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. According to Woody Kirkman's Lantern net website the Dietz Empire lantern was "Made especially for the New York Central from about 1915 into the 1920's, unknown if they produced for any other Railroad". See Link and scroll down to "Dead flame lanterns". Link 1  Posted Monday, July 23, 2018 by LC

 Q3494 Lantern Info Needed  If you could please help me identify this lantern, I would really appreciate it. Thank you very much!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, July 22, 2018 by Doug B   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Offhand I'd say Central of Georgia Ry....where they forgot the G. I've seen Nickel Plate lanterns factory marked NPK and Duluth Mesabi & Iron Range lanterns marked DM&IRR, also from the factory. I know there's more, but those are examples. Posted Sunday, July 22, 2018 by BobF

A. I once had a B&O 'RY' (Not 'RR') lantern. This was just one of many misprints from the factory. Posted Sunday, July 22, 2018 by PK

 Q3493 Signal Lantern Lenses  Hello! Wondering if you would be able to answer a question I have about an Adlake railroad signal lantern I had come across - it is in great shape, but on one side it has a red lens which was larger than the others - it seemed like it was OK, but I was wondering if any of the lanterns made, had that as a standard option, or could it possibly be an aftermarket lens? Retrofitted to the lantern itself? Are all of the lenses supposed to be of equal size on the 4 sides? Any help would be great! I have a chance to purchase it, but really don’t know much about the options of these vintage lanterns. Thank you!  Posted Tuesday, July 17, 2018 by James   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. James: This is where a PHOTO would be really helpful. - Minus that, it sounds like that you have a Marker Lamp. Many marker lamps had an oversize red lens; usually 6&3/8 inch. The other three would be either all green or all yellow; and with the oversize red lens, the other three will usually be 5&3/8 inch. Switch lamps frequently have two different size lenses, paired 180° opposite each other; Examples would be 4&1/2 inch and 5&3/8 inch;or 5 inch and 5&3/8 inch; or 4&1/2 inch and 4&1/8 inch as mentioned towards the end of Q3489. The green lens would always be the smaller size and the two green lenses would be 180° opposite each other. This was done primarily to keep the lamp tender from spacing out and putting the wrong color lens in an opening. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Tuesday, July 17, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. See the Link for a page in the archives on this site showing and describing many of the lamps we discuss often here, and there are supply co. catalog pages as well. In general, the bodies of kerosene switch lamps, marker lamps, and classification lamps are very similar. The main difference between a switch lamp and the others is they are base-mounted and the whole lamp turned along with the switch (or derail) mechanism to indicate the various positions by showing the lenses in different directions. Markers and classification lamps were hung on one (or sometimes one of two) feet which were inserted in brackets on the side of the car or loco. Sometimes they are marked 'Left' and 'Right' Only the lamp body would rotate in its mounting bracket to change the indications, usually with some kind of mechanical latch and lever. Markers showed to the rear; classification lamps showed to the front and sides. After being hung on the bracket, classification lamps often had a small mechanical lever on the side to easily change internal lenses to go from white to green, or sometimes red to use if the engine backed up. That allowed changing the color on all sides of the lamp without rotating the body. The units with two mounting feet at 90 degrees allowed hanging the lamp on either an end bracket or a side bracket on a car or loco, since both were commonly used. Intended to be portable, and fairly expensive, markers and classification lights are more likely to be marked with the RR's initials. But switch lamps may be marked depending on the RR's practices. The lamp bodies and parts are so similar that often parts might get swapped, either during the RR service or by others afterward.  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, July 18, 2018 by RJMc

 Q3492 Engine Headlight Database?  I recently acquired several steam engine headlights and was wondering if there is a way to track it to a particular railroad by the railroad record number on the tag? Is there a database for these numbers and if so where would I find it? Thanks.  Posted Tuesday, July 17, 2018 by Jerry M.   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. You acquired several steam engine headlights = WOW lucky you! I’ve owned a few over the years and believe that the engine number would be you best clue or starting point. The brass tags on headlights that I’ve owned seem only refer to patent numbers. I could be wrong on this as I am sure there are others out there who may know more than I do.  Posted Tuesday, July 17, 2018 by ex sou ry

A. Jerry M : as always, the very best thing you could do is to send in PHOTOS of the headlights and let us point out some things from those pictures. Many railroads had distinctive enough headlights that they can be ID'd from a picture. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Wednesday, July 18, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. There are ID numbers on some of the mfrs. tags that I am guessing might be mfr's lot or order numbers which potentially could be related to the RR that ordered the headlights. I have NOT had the sense that the 'record numbers' were individual unit serial numbers for each headlight. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any records, cross references, or data bases available today to match up those numbers now, with the ordering RR, then. But photos might still be helpful and provide clues.  Posted Wednesday, July 18, 2018 by RJMc

A. Just send your photos to this website via email (like you sent the question) and we'll post them to the question as a response. We don't allow direct posting of photos to questions and responses for security and storage management reasons. Posted Sunday, July 22, 2018 by Web Editor

 Q3491 Lamp Question  I have what I think is a adlake #1112 non sweating marker lamp. The base is rotted out. I was wondering if the base can be fixed? I can soldier a new piece of tin on the bottom. I was wondering if this is advisable but the base I see on others similar to this one have a base with a foot on it. I was wondering if I could get one? The brackets and shades are pitted and worn. Can these be replaced also? Any information would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, July 17, 2018 by SP   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. My best happy hunting grounds for lantern parts is the Gaithersburg Show held the first weekend in November. Guys often show up with boxes of parts and pieces that are too esoteric for internet auction sites.  Posted Tuesday, July 17, 2018 by Ex Sou Ry

A. If the lenses, burner/fount etc are missing as well I would say you could probably buy a good condition and complete 1112 lamp on that well known auction site for about the same money you'd put into trying to find and buying parts for your lamp. The 1112 is a common switch lamp so rarity is not an issue. Posted Wednesday, July 18, 2018 by LC

A. SP : Yes, it is an ADLAKE 1112. You have a Switch Lamp from the Pennsylvania Railroad; not a marker lamp. Even though the bottom has rusted away, it is a salvageable and desireable piece; and actually the body looks to be in pretty good shape. You can certainly solder a sheet metal disk into the bottom of the lamp and do a fairly good restoration job. I'd be tempted to find a good sheet metal or custom auto body shop and have them assist you in cutting that disk or even forming a cup with some low sides for that replacement bottom. When you say the “brackets and shades are pitted and worn”, you can fill in some of the pits usually with several coats of paint primer, sanding between coats. Or you can look on eBay for replacements. Lamp parts show up on there frequently. – As to the base; See LINK 1 for a good depiction of the ADLAKE cast switch lamp base. The LINK is actually to the #169 lamp, but the base is the same as the #1112, and that link is a clearer illustration of the cast base. NOTE, however, that the PRR practice was to turn the base 45° on the bottom of the lamp. - What do I mean by that? ..note that in the illustration of the #169 lamp, the flat sides of the cast base are lined up parallel to the lenses. The Pennsy rotated the base 45° so that the corner of the base was facing the lens. They are they only railroad that I know of that did this. – You have some options here; over the years, many lamps have had their cast base removed by collectors and home decorators as doing so makes the lamp shorter and easier to put on a shelf as well as making them more stable; those bases are of a pretty small footprint and make the lamp easy to tip over. By not replacing the cast base you would still have a nice display item. You can search at shows and on eBay for a replacement base, -OR- you can try to make a reasonable facsimile; of all the parts on your lamp, the cast base is the one piece that you could make a pretty good replacement for out of some sort of modeling compound, depending on how artistic you are. – As to lens and day target color; the lenses for your lamp would be Yellow and Lunar White, the day targets would be chrome yellow for the yellow lenses and white for the lunar lenses. If the lamp takes two different size lenses (and I think they did) the larger lens is the yellow one. Those show up on eBay as well, but you have to search constantly. ---- …. Red Beard Link 1  Posted Wednesday, July 18, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. As the LINK is not working this morning, copy and paste this: - http://www.railroadiana.org/library/cat_AW191216/(B-11)%20No.%20175%20Switch%20Lamp%20with%2028-oz.%20Oil%20Fount.pdf Posted Wednesday, July 18, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Well, we're continuing to tweak the code to allow longer links. The link field from Red Beard has now been posted from this form and it seems to be working. Apologies for this annoying problem. Link 1  Posted Thursday, July 19, 2018 by Webmaster

 Q3490 Removing Inspector Lantern Globe  I recently acquired two inspector lanterns. They seem like they are in fair condition, some rust, nothing seems broken. The globes seem original. Problem is: I want to clean them up but have no idea how to remove the globes! Is there anywhere on the web that gives instructions for this because I can’t seem to find it? Thanks in advance.  Posted Tuesday, July 17, 2018 by Karen D   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. We can probably help with this here on this site. But there are many different types of inspector lanterns, so a pic would be very helpful to make sure we give good advice. Posted Saturday, July 21, 2018 by RJMc

 Q3489 Lamp Questions  I recently purchased an 'Adlake Non-Sweating Lamp Chicago' and have some questions. It has 2 red lenses and 2 green lenses. The red lenses have red targets and the green lenses have a small hood rather than a target. Age – From what I have read, my understanding is that Adlake produced square top lamps in Chicago between the mid-1920s and 1927. Lamps produced there were stamped with 'Chicago'. After that period of time (1927), the company moved to Elkhart, Indiana and lamps no longer carried the 'Chicago'stamp. I am guessing that this lamp is from that time period. Is that correct?'The base has 4 feet on it and has the number 86025 cast into it. I am guessing that this is a switch lamp. Is that correct?'What does non-sweating mean and how does that make it different from other lamps? Thanks!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, July 12, 2018 by Oreo97   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Oreo97: Yes, this is a switch lamp. I've seen many, many ADLAKE lamps over the past 50 years. Thinking that all the square top lamps I've ever seen said CHICAGO on the cap; some of which I know for a fact as having been produced in the 1960s. From material recently uploaded on this site, it appears that the square top vent system was introduced in the "teens", as bulletin B-31 (LINK 1) mentions the square top system and that bulletin is dated January 1916 (far bottom right, last page)- Not all lamps had day targets; many had none. It's quite common to see lamps with day targets only on the red or yellow lenses, and with hoods, or nothing at all, on the green lens. Some lamps had day targets all around. This was purely by the preference of the railroad. The number cast onto the base is a part number. - The little port hole / peep hole had a flat, clear glass disk in it when new. The rubber gasket made the glass disk air-tight. The peep hole was so that the lamp tender could look in and adjust the flame up or down after refilling and relighting so that it didn't smoke. Lamps needed to be closed and warm back up to operating temperature after being re-lit before the final adjustment of the flame. The "Non-Sweating" feature of the vent system is explained in LINK 1 as well. the vent system drew outside air down over the back of the lenses so as to keep the front and back of the lens nearly the same temperature to prevent condensation and fogging of the back side of the lens, which would significantly reduce the visibility of the light from the lens. By the early 1900s, most lamp manufacturers had similar venting features. ---- .... Red Beard Link 1  Posted Thursday, July 12, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Well, as unfortunately happens on this site, the LINK feature isn't working. Copy and paste this - http://www.railroadiana.org/library/cat_AW191216/(B-31)%20Square%20Top%20Ventilation%20and%20Wind-Proof%20Door.pdf Posted Thursday, July 12, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. ALSO: It is almost impossible at this point in time to date square top ADLAKE lamps. They all look just alike, and apparently there were NO manufacturing changes to the original design from inception until the last kerosene lamps were produced and used in the '70s. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Thursday, July 12, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Thanks for the fast reply! Your information was really helpful and I learned a lot. I will keep your response with the lamp so my grandchildren can know about it when they are a little older. I have downloaded the bulletin and will also keep it with my lamp. Age doesn't make a difference to me. I'm just glad to have the lamp and it looks great with my grandfather's O gauge Lionel trains. In case you couldn't tell, I have hung a light bulb down the vent to illuminate the lenses. One of the red ones is broken but still in the housing. I have ordered a new one (with gasket) and will install it upon arrival. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. It made my day! Posted Thursday, July 12, 2018 by Oreo97

A. Folks, I've lengthened the link field to accept a higher number of characters so the problem of bad links should get better. There's still a limit of 255 characters owing to the structure that was established 20 years ago when URLS tended to be smaller. I fixed the link field in Red Beard's original response. Sorry for the problem. Posted Friday, July 13, 2018 by Web Editor

A. With that arrangement of red targets and hoods over the green lenses (all 4-1/2" diameter it appears), there's a very good chance that the lantern came from the Burlington. I've also seen BN, INC (stamped in the base) lanterns with this arrangement. Posted Friday, July 13, 2018 by BobF

A. In very old lamps, the peephole window was made of natural mica ("isinglass")which is transparent enough, but somewhat brittle, when thin slices are used. Glass has been in use for quite a while and is much more transparent and durable. As to 'non-sweating', one of the unavoidable byproducts of burning kerosene is water vapor. Without the 'anti-sweating' air flow design, in cool or cold weather the water vapor would build up in the lamp and as indicated above, condense and sometimes freeze on the insides of the lenses. Initially that destroys their ability to focus the light and eventually, with picking up soot, dirt, etc, blanks out the light completely. And it is a real chore to attempt the clean the interior of a switch lamp caked with moist soot and kerosene, without totally dis-assembling the lamp and lenses. One of the key features of the design, often missing in souvenir lamps, is the small Pyrex glass chimney (about 1" in diameter and 3" tall.) It conducted the incoming air to the flame to properly mix for combustion, and directed the burned gases and water vapor into the 'non-sweating design flow pattern.  Posted Friday, July 13, 2018 by RJMc

A. RJMc : Thanks for mentioning "isinglass", that's an important piece of history to pass along to readers, one that is rarely mentioned anymore. My experience is that Pyle National liked mica and used it in late production of their round, two lens class lamps. Those class lamps had a large "peep hole" window on the opposite side of the body from each of the lenses; which were 90° apart. I've always assumed that was so that the crew could see from the cab if the lamp was lit or not. All Pyle class lamps I've seen had thin isinglass disks in those peep holes. - Also, in the late days of lamp use (mid 1960s onward), and as many railroads were running out of money, quite a few lamps in service went without proper replacement of that very important Pyrex chimney. A "Non-Sweating" lamp without the chimney didn't perform; and as you mention they would soot up their interior something awful. I've seen some where, in addition to no chimney the wick was turned up too far, creating smoke and poor enough combustion that besides the soot, there was a tar like substance inside the lamp and even up in the perforated cone in the metal chimney baffle, so bad that the perforations were almost entirely blocked. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Friday, July 13, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. BobF : A question for you. Do you have actual marked BR/CB&Q lamps with 4&1/2 inch green lenses? And if so, do you know where they were last in use? -- I have several of the lamps, and saw many more in service back in the day. All of the BR/CB&Q marked lamps I've seen actually had 4&1/8 inch green lenses. The unusual goggle in the lamp body for the green lenses had a step down shelf formed into it so it could accommodate either size, though I never found any in the Omaha/Council Bluffs area with 4&1/2 in. green lenses. Additionally; instead of a lens hood, as pictured in this question, they employed a unique full circle ring hood; the lens sat in the smaller step down I mentioned and the ring sat in the 4&1/2" step and the two pieces were held in place by a standard 4&1/2 inch lens coupling ring. The lamp would not accommodate the green lens without the full circle ring hood to hold it in place, though 4&1/2 in. lenses will fit directly in them. The litmus test for unmarked Burlington lamps is the 4&1/8 green lens, OR to take out the replacement 4.5 inch lens and see if that step down shelf to 4&1/8" is built into the goggle. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Friday, July 13, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Red Beard, I stand corrected. It's been so long since I messed with a BR/CB&Q lantern that I forgot that they had those 4-1/8" green lenses. I just instinctively see a lantern like that and think Burlington. Posted Tuesday, July 17, 2018 by BobF

A. BobF : drop me an email sometime, it would be fun to trade stories. RailroadRaider@Gmail.com Posted Wednesday, July 18, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Gentlemen, This lamp that is pictured and is being discussed is a Milw Road lamp and is probably one of the last orders from Adlake.I can tell its Milw by the inside shape of the lamp tip casting and the new hole that was drilled thru both sides of the base casting to add the large pop rivet they were famous for using for theft deterence.The Milw ordered and used the green/red/red targets version on their low boy switches on crossovers.The green/yellow/yellow target version was used on yard lead switches.Some of these late Adlakes had a CMSTP&PRY letter stamping on the edge of the top cap. The CB&Q/BN did use 4-1/8 green lenses with that 4-1/2 inch reducer ring.The CB&Q's lamp tip was very small and their initials were often cast in the lamp tip socket casting. DJB Posted Thursday, July 19, 2018 by DJB

A. DJB ; Thanks for that info. I do remember seeing MILW shop made lamps and Dressels on the Milwaukee that had been drilled through like that. The ones I saw in Council Bluffs and Sioux City had a piece of soft steel rod stuck through that hole and then bent 90° on each end. On the shop made lamps, they took the spring loaded knob out of the base, and using that same hole that the spring loaded plunger went in, they'd drill right through the target rod and run the steel rod through it. In Omaha, the UP had some industry sidings out west that had the lamps actually welded onto the target rod. ..those blasted souvenir collectors kept the lamp makers pretty busy in the last years of lamp use. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Friday, July 20, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q3487 Another Handlan but not a Lamp...  This may not be a railroad item at all, but perhaps something for the construction industry. I can find no image of a similar item with a Handlan image search. Cap unscrews exposing the wick which has some residual kerosene smell. What gets me wondering is there is no wind protection for the flame, so it was not likely used long term or unattended. Anyone have an idea?   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, June 28, 2018 by Bryan J   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Looks like an engineer's torch. Cast iron ones are usually marked with RR letters but brass ones were likely his own property. Have one with a lot of engraving similar to scrimshaw on a whale tooth. Has engineman's name etc. have never seen one with screw on cap, could easily be lost when in use.  Posted Friday, June 29, 2018 by DC

A. The screw-on cap was so you -- the locomotive engineer -- could carry the torch lying down in your grip (small suitcase) when on the road, so the kerosene wouldn't leak out all over your clothes, your lunch, your timetables and other paperwork, etc. Having the kerosene not leak was obviously fairly important, is there any sign of an 'O' ring or other means to seal the threaded joint? The cast iron torches were usually bulkier, with handles and wide bases, and were usually based in shops where they could be kept upright between uses. They were more likely to be marked with the RR initials and just issued as general-use equipment rather than assigned to individuals.  Posted Friday, June 29, 2018 by RJMc

A. I know very little about most railroad items, although I did work as a "gandy dancer" for several months after graduating from college. (In retrospect one of the best learning experiences in my 68 year life to date.) Anyway, the knurl on the cap looks typical to that I've seen on mid to late 19th century items of various types. At the bottom of the thread there appears to be smooth slightly concave surface or "gland" when associated with 0-rings. It would also function effectively as a sealing surface for a leather gasket which would be more likely.  Posted Monday, July 2, 2018 by JSM

A. The New York Central film is now available at the Link. See just after 10 minutes into the film for the section about using torches in the roundhouse. Link 1  Posted Tuesday, July 3, 2018 by RJMc

A. See also prior Q's 2693 which also lists other earlier Q's including 2510. Unfortunately the video listed in 2510, which was shot for the NYC RR and explicitly showed and discussed torches in use in a New York Central roundhouse, is no longer available. The film may still be available elsewhere. It makes the point that a critical use for the torch is for finding air leaks in air brake systems; providing light is almost secondary since lanterns were always available for that. Posted Tuesday, July 3, 2018 by RJMc

A. Thanks to you all for the earlier replies. I have not been able to determine an age for this torch, but the video was very instructive. I see one on eBay now for $499, but I do not have any idea of a true value. I may donate it to the Georgia Museum of Agriculture in Tifton, GA or to an acquaintance who does a tremendous amount of volunteer work. Posted Monday, May 13, 2019 by Bryan J

 Q3486 Adlake No. 250 Question  I recently was given my grandfather's Adlake No. 250 kero lantern. I've read multiple posts about mfg date stamped on bottom. Mine does not have that ... only a metal stamped flower design on the bottom. Where does that place its mfg timewise (approx year). Just curious, as it's never going to be sold for sentimental reasons. Thank you!  Posted Thursday, June 28, 2018 by Ron V   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Thank you for the info! :)  Posted Friday, June 29, 2018 by Ron V.

A. The Kero 250 never had any dates stamped on the bottom, but the later Kero 300 /400 had manufacturing dates on the bottom. This web site discusses the various Adlake Kero models and provides the following information about the age of the Kero 250- see Link 1. "This model (Kero 250) was manufactured from around 1926 to around 1930 and was succeeded by the "Kero"." Cunningham in his book "The Railroad Lantern" states the Kero 250 was made as a standard type of lantern from about 1925 to 1931.  Link 1  Posted Friday, June 29, 2018 by JEM

 Q3483 Burner Question  Were Dietz Convex burners used in Armspear 1925 lanterns?  Posted Friday, June 22, 2018 by Marvin E   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. No,similar but not a Dietz although they seem to be interchangable. An unmarked brass convex burner with a wheel at he end of the stem was used in the Armsphere 1925.  Posted Saturday, June 23, 2018 by LC

A. Burners were interchangeable so who can tell if a burner is original to the lantern. One of my two Armspear 1925 lanterns has a large wheel marked ARMSPEAR NY. The other one has a Dietz Convex burner. The later 1925 Armspear lanterns made by Adlake (under contract to Armspear), and that look like Adlake Keros may well have had Adlake burners. Posted Sunday, June 24, 2018 by JEM

A. Your one marked "Dietz" isn't original to your lantern and was replaced at some later date. Posted Monday, June 25, 2018 by LC

 Q3480 Lamp Info Needed  I have the lantern pictured in the image – minus the globes – and I'm looking for more information on it. I reached out to Adams & Westlake directly and they said that due to the age and some merging / ownership changes in their company, they would have to go back to their archives to try and find information on it, which I’m still waiting to hear back from them. Any idea where I could learn more about it? I believe it was a lantern in a rail car based on what my Dad told me (he had limited info as well), but I can't track any info down based on my search using the maker and date: dams & Westlake – Chicago 1890 May 6. I’d greatly appreciate any pointers. Thank you,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, June 20, 2018 by Brian   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Try Lampguild.org (link 1). They may help you. Link 1  Posted Thursday, June 21, 2018 by LC

A. Thank you for the pointer to the LampGuild site - i have reached out to them as well. Hoping to find more info to help further identify the Adams & Westlake piece. Thank you, Brian Posted Thursday, June 21, 2018 by Brian

A. Hello - does anyone else have any advice on this? No response back from LampGuild and a lot of the links on their page are broken.  Posted Tuesday, July 10, 2018 by brian

A. Hello i also have aquired a few of these items and i believe they are center lamps from Pullman sleeper cars. Very rare piece and extremely hard to find. You hit the lottery there. Posted Sunday, January 8, 2023 by MRG

 Q3479 Authentic Locks?  I have two Milwaukee Road locks. I am not real familiar with the hardware from this line and would like input as to their authenticity. They almost look 'too good'.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, June 17, 2018 by WCC   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Does U S Mail Lock have a double bit keyway and indentations on both sides of drop (dust cover). Absence of any patina is strange but maybe they were never exposed to the elements. Posted Monday, June 18, 2018 by DC

A. Yes, the mail lock has the indents on the hole cover and would take a double sided key... Posted Monday, June 18, 2018 by WCC

A. Those locks are both most definitely legit. The mail car is quite rare. It appears someone cleaned them up some time ago, and the patina will appear in time. Two very fine locks.  Posted Thursday, June 21, 2018 by Jim G

A. When mail car lock had its steel chain there was a fitting at the end that was brass to fasten it to car. Key is brass hollow barrel marked CM&STPRR on one side and MC on other side. Posted Friday, June 22, 2018 by DC

A. Many thanks for all of the replies! WCC Posted Saturday, June 23, 2018 by WCC

 Q3476 Adlake Marker Lenses  I recently purchased an Adlake cannonball marker lamp (not a class lamp – no internal baffles), and would like to make sure it has the correct lenses installed. The lamp came with 2 red and 2 green lenses, all 4 are Kopp Glass RL 4364, 5 3/8 D. 3 ½ F. 30 degree SPR. 10 degree DEFL. I thought all caboose markers were either RGGG or RYYY. Was there an application for which this lens arrangement, RGRG, was correct on a marker lamp? Are these the correct lenses for this lamp? I thought lenses with SPR and DEFL were used in switch lamps. Or was this used in a different application? Thanks,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, June 13, 2018 by Joseph C.   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. See prior Q 2881 for a discussion of marker light colors, and also enter 'Marker Lamp' (no quotes) in the 'word or phrase' search box to see many, many earlier Q's & A's on this topic. (Let the search work for a while.) Bottom line, each RR determined its own color use and it was usually specified in the rule book or timetable special instructions, which might vary from area to area on the same RR.  Posted Thursday, June 14, 2018 by RJMc

A. Joseph: Your suspicions are correct; those are NOT the correct lenses for your marker lamp. – The vast majority of markers had 3 green and 1 red, OR 3 yellow and 1 red. I know of no markers that used a GRGR arrangement. – Some eastern railroads that ran four track main lines used combinations with red, yellow and green in the same lamp, but I won't go into those here. RJMc is correct in that there are many marker lamp questions you can search for on this site. – – The thing to always remember is that we are now more than 40 years past the use of markers on American railroads and almost that long since switch lamps were used as well (switch lamps lasted in use later than markers). Many markers and switch lamps show up for sale that have been cobbled together from parts. Glass lenses, being the most fragile part of the lamp, are often replaced with what ever is available; that combined with the fact that many sellers have absolutely no idea of what they are doing, accounts for many lamps turning up with non-realistic combinations of lenses and lens colors in them. Your fine lamp is one of those! – – You are also correct in that the Spreadlight ribs and Deflector prisms were not used in markers. Do note though that some railroads, including the D&RGW used Spreadlight ribbed lenses in Classification Lamps. Class Lamps needed to be seen at shorter distances and on curvy track. Spreadlight lenses helped to make the class lamp light more easily distinguishable by station operators and crews on other trains sitting in sidings as the engine passed. Almost all diesel class lamps had ribbed lenses to spread the beam out in a wider pattern. Markers however needed to be seen brightly at as great a distance as possible, and the Spreadlight ribs diminished visibility of the lamp light at distance. – – Your lenses are intended for a low mount electric switch lamp, and are fairly late production (1950s or 1960s). The Sreadlight ribs make the lamp easier to see where tracks curve, as the light is focused into a horizontally wider beam, and the deflector prisms, in the top of the very center Fresnel ring, deflect the light upwards so that the lamp can be viewed not only at a distance, but by an engine crew up in the cab sitting very near the lamp. People who haven't seen lit lamps in a very dark situation don't realize that the forward focus of the lenses is so effective that in the dark it is very hard to see the colored light from a lamp if you are very close to the lamp and several feet above it, as you are in an engine cab. The deflector prisms made for a small dot of visible color from that position up in the engine cab. If it weren't for those deflector prisms, a crewman would have to leave the cab and climb down closer to ground level to see the light from the lamp to determine what color it was! – – Deflector prisms are also used in block signal lenses for the same reason. An engine crew sitting very close to a lit signal cannot see the lit lenses, they look completely dark, again because the forward focus of the lens is so effective. Downward deflector prisms need to be added to the center of the signal lens to diffuse enough light so that the crew can see the colored light from the signal while sitting in the engine cab close to the signal. This is especially true while sitting stopped at a red signal waiting for it to change color. ---- …. Red Beard Posted Thursday, June 14, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. The New York Central used the outside-ribbed lenses on kerosene markers. This was mostly in the time period-- probably 1930's and earlier -- when they were operating multi-track main lines which already had signals. In that kind of territory the ability to see the markers at long distances was considerably reduced.  Posted Friday, June 15, 2018 by RJMc

A. For clarification and ease in future searches, ribbed lenses are trade named Spredlite (actual trade name spelling), and marked as such on the outer face of many lenses ---- .... Red Beard Posted Saturday, June 16, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Thank you all for the informative answers. I suspected that the lenses were not correct. However, I know that Spredlite/Deflector lenses are relatively rare, and to find a matched set of them in the marker lamp suggested that they were original equipment. The odds of someone cobbling the lamp together with such a matched set seems highly unlikely, but of course not impossible. I’ll just swap the lenses out with a switch marker I have with smooth lenses. Thanks Joe Posted Wednesday, June 20, 2018 by Joseph Cich

A. Joseph: for clarification; when you say “However, I know that Spredlite/Deflector lenses are relatively rare, and to find a matched set of them in the marker lamp suggested that they were original equipment. The odds of someone cobbling the lamp together with such a matched set seems highly unlikely, but of course not impossible.”, consider this; WRRS (now Western-Cullen-Hayes Inc.) is one of the last manufacturers still offering switch lamps and replacement lenses for sale to railroads and industries. Link 1 is to their catalog sheet for such. (LINK 1) – – The 5&3/8” Spredlite/Deflector is now, and has been for decades, their standard lens. Looking back over the past century and a half, hundreds of thousands (and probably literally millions) of Fresnel lenses have been made, some still in their original lamps, many broken and replaced. Given that vast number of lenses, the Spredlite/Deflector lens is likely a small percentage of the total number of lenses ever produced, (see last paragraph) however; over the last four decades, I would guess that the -majority- of lamps produced came with those same lenses (that current 'majority' being very small in number compared to the lamps produced in the 1950s & 1960s). So, in the “real world” (not the collectors world) those lenses are now the most common still being produced for industry. – – Those same lenses show up on eBay every now and then still wrapped in the red, green or yellow tissue paper they came from the factory in, and apparently are still available from Western-Cullen-Hayes themselves (though, pricey the last time I checked). Additionally, the erroneous R-G-R-G arrangement is probably the most blatant clue to some post-railroad owner having slapped them in there, as they were the first thing he could find in the 5&3/8” size; ...or, maybe he just liked the way they looked and he selected those lenses from an assortment of lenses available to him. If you search the web on a weekly basis, lots and lots of glass lenses come up for sale over a year's time. – – Again, the biggest thing to remember in this hobby is that almost half a century has passed since Fresnel lensed lamps (electric or kerosene) were in general, widespread use on American railroads, ..that's very long time. Lots and lots of the lamps you see for sale really are “cobbled together” from the parts someone can find at any given point in time. – – Another thing I stress on here is that today, it is almost impossible to grasp how extensive the rail network was in the U.S. up through the 1960s (just by coincidence, about the time lamps were discontinued) Almost every tiny town (of a few hundred people) had a few siding tracks. Towns of just a few thousand people had one or more small yards. Large cities had immense networks of yards. Each of those sidings or yard tracks usually had a switch lamp at each end. That's an astounding number of switch lamps in use, just fifty years ago (Viet Nam War era). World War II era, it was even larger yet. ---- .... Red Beard  Link 1  Posted Thursday, June 21, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. I may have found the answer to my question. On October 21st I attended the 27th annual Chicago Railroadiana Show in St. Charles Il., and a vendor had an Adlake cannonball marker just like mine, complete with 4 spredlite lenses. Together with the lamp he also had a photo of the lamp in service. It was a tender marker lamp on a DM&IR Yellowstone. What was convincing was that the lamp still had the power cord attached, about 4' with one of those big honkin' Pyle National connectors on the end, and you could see the same cord and connector in the photo. It didn't occur to me at the time, I should have tried to take a photo of his picture with my phone to add to this thread. I have tried to find a similar picture on Google without success. Posted Tuesday, November 13, 2018 by Joseph Cich

 Q3475 Dietz Vesta GM&O RR lanterns  I recently purchased a pair of Dietz Vesta GM&O railroad lanterns. I cannot find a patent date or manufacturing date code. Did they put a patent date and/or date code on all their lanterns? Is it possible I purchased a 'fake'?   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, June 13, 2018 by Marvin E.   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Is there an "S" number, such as S-39? The letter is the plant and the 2 digit number is the date manufactured. It would be on the lid near any patent dates. Posted Wednesday, June 13, 2018 by JN

A. JN...No patent dates, no date codes. Posted Wednesday, June 13, 2018 by Marvin E.

A. We have a web page about Vestas [See link], compiled with information from a variety of sources. According to the page, Vestas after 1956 did not have date codes. We have never heard of a Vesta with a railroad marking being reproduced/counterfeited. Your lanterns are very likely legit but newer than the mid-50's. Link 1  Posted Wednesday, June 13, 2018 by Web Editor

 Q3471 Wm Westlake Brass Lantern Authenticity Confirmation  Is this from the 1800's? The REIS number is a mystery. I'd like to know if anyone has seen one like this. This all brass lantern is marked on the bottom with Wm Westlakes Pat Aug. 8 64, Sept. 12,65 & Dec. 12 65. The shoulder lid says PAT APR 26 64 & REIS.No. 236_ last number may be 9. The patent dates match some other Wm Westlake lanterns seen on-line. The twist off bellbottom says No. 39 GLOBE on the band. The burner knob says E. Miller & Co. Meriden, Conn. Globe is unmarked clear with a purple tint and I don’t care how old the globe is, just the frame. This lantern is very similar to the No.2 'Railway King' lantern on p.44 of 'The Illustrated Encyclopedia Of Railroad Lighting, Volume 1-The Railroad Lantern' by Richard C. Barrett. It looks and feels old.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, June 10, 2018 by WB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Your lantern was made in the early 1870s. Reis means that a noted patent was “Reissued.” This could occur for many reasons, but Is usually related to a prior art claim by someone who was issued an earlier patent with similar novelty claims. The diamond filigree in the chimney was used on several A&W models including no. 2 and no. 39. You have noted no. 2 Railway King , which was a wire bottom model that used a no. 2 globe. The no. 2 globe has a smaller diameter bottom fitter extension diameter and wider girth than a no. 39 globe. Noted on your lantern is “no 39 Globe” which advises the correct replacement required. This was specified for a short time in the early 1870s because there were a number of models in service that required different globe types before standardization was well along with no. 39 models. Posted Monday, June 11, 2018 by ABSwoyer

 Q3470 RR Light Info?  I was told this is an old Railroad light. It has been mounted on a wood base. I believe it is solid brass, quite heavy too. The light itself (without base) is approximately 9-10 inches tall. I was hoping you could tell me more about it? I really appreciate your efforts on my behalf.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, June 3, 2018 by DF   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. L.L.Rowe Co. of Woburn Ma. is a manufacturer of marine lighting. Posted Monday, June 4, 2018 by DC

A. I have a similar ships light (but older) of US Navy WWII vintage. To quote from a letter I received from the US Navy Historical Center: "Your cobalt blue Fresnel light is almost certainly a specialty light. Unlike the usual red and green running lights, the blue light was only used in towing operations. Posted Monday, June 4, 2018 by LC

A. bridge marker light Posted Tuesday, July 17, 2018 by Ex Sou Ry

A. DF: - See LINK 1 for a PDF of the U.S. Coast Guard bulletin on Bridge Lighting. – If the lens is actually blue, LC may have the answer. If it is a teal, blue green color (signal green), much like a highway traffic stop light, then it could be a bridge lamp. The Coast Guard PDF shows where red and green lights were placed on bridges. – Remember, railroads had thousands of bridges over navigable waterways; so if your lamp is a bridge lamp, it could certainly be a rail related piece. – The question I would have is that all of the railroad lamp manufacturers (Adlake, Dressel, Handlan, etc.) also made these types of bridge lamps, and railroads tended to buy bridge lamps from people they already had high volume business relationships with rather than turning to marine equipment suppliers; not impossible though. ---- …. Red Beard  Link 1  Posted Tuesday, August 14, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q3466 JustRite Lantern  Can anyone tell me about JustRite Lanterns? Specifically JustRite Model 2150, 'The Trainman'? I just purchased one at a flea market in nice shape. I have never heard of this company. Can anyone give me history and possible date? The latest patent date on it is 1942 with others pending. Being shiny, almost chrome-like, to me it may have been for passenger service? Any information would be helpful Thank You,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, May 28, 2018 by JN   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The Link is to the Justrite Co. website; they started in business in 1906 and are still in business today making mostly hazmat containers, apparently. It does not appear that they are still in the lantern business. Link 1  Posted Monday, May 28, 2018 by RJMc

A. That shiny bright surface is typical of electric lanterns. The Congers were the same bright finish. Sorry to say that it doesn't denote a passenger service lantern as they all came in a bright finish. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Tuesday, May 29, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q3462 Lantern Restoration Advice?  My names Joseph and by some act of god I recently stumbled on and purchased a 1906-1908 adlake, bell bottom, blue globe, ice spike, workmens lantern at a garage sale outside of Grand Rapids, Michigan. It’s my belief the railroad etched on its globe is a very rare line, (Grand Rapids and Indiana, a line of the Grand trunk railroad). They primarily hauled lumber from the north to the ohio river early on. Later the GR and I transitioned to mostly moving passengers, it was during this period of time my lantern was made. Shortly there after they went out of business in 1918. I’m new to the hobby (like only a few days), and I’m interested in learning more about the lantern and how to proceed as far as restoration or possibly preservation. I had no idea what i was buying when i purchased it and now after days of research I’ve come to realize its rarity and to some degree its value. Also i’ve come to learn the Grand Rapids and Indiana ran about 10 miles from my home in Brookville Oh (near New Paris, Ohio and Richmond, Indiana). For that reason I plan to keep it and possibly acquire additional similar lanterns in the future.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2018 by JO   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Hello. That is certainly a very nice lantern. However, the Grand Rapids and Indiana was a Pennsylvania RR subsidiary, (not Grand Trunk) serving Ft. Wayne, IN on its south end in relatively recent times. According to Bill Edson's Railroad Names listing, Grand Rapids and Indiana existed (as a separate company) from 1867 to 1921. It continued to exist as an operating railroad (still referred to as 'GR&I' although not a separate company) as part of PRR, then Penn Central, and into Conrail. One issue discussed fairly extensively elsewhere here on this website: it is easy to add etching to lantern globes. Hopefully the lantern itself is marked GR&I, but in the pic the globe looks shiny and new, so the etching might have been added later, and some places are selling new globes today recently etched with long-gone RR markings. There are other clues as to how old the globe might be but it will take a closer examination to tell that.  Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2018 by RJMc

A. So appears I’m mistaken about the GR and Iy being a Grand Trunk line, my mistake. Here’s where it gets a little crazy though the globe directly beneath the GR and Iy etching is a very very faint casting in the rectangular label area which sates “SONORA RY”. It’s only visible with light behind the globe. I believe that may be Mexican line? I’m so confused haha  Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2018 by JO

A. Here is more information about the GR&IRy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Rapids_and_Indiana_Railroad and note, the burner mark P&A is for Plume & Atwood which made burners for many customers including railroad lantern makers. I have no clue about your globe - that does sound like a puzzle - but the Sonora Railway was a subsidiary of the Anerican "Santa Fe Line" and was subsidized by the Mexican government. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Pacific_Railroad_of_Mexico .  Posted Thursday, May 17, 2018 by JMS

A. OOOPS - sorry ! I meant to post the links in the correct boxes, but mistakenly put them into the comment section, mea culpa !!  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Thursday, May 17, 2018 by JMS

A. Here’s a link to a clear globe with the same SONORA Ry marking minus the DEC 30 1902 patent date. The globe is embossed on the inside, you can run your fingers along it and feel it. My research says the SONORA RY ended in 1898. So it seems to me that possibly the GR and Iy purchased a used GTR ice spike bell bottom and then some how came across this odd Corning globe and strapped it together for a workmen? It’s nearly impossible to see the internal embossing without back light. I could be way off, I really don’t know. I know the GR and Iy was hard up and intersected the GTR in Grand Rapids, so possibly? Link 1  Posted Thursday, May 17, 2018 by JO

A. You have not said: is the LANTERN marked (in the pic it looks like maybe GTW)? The issue with etching of globes is that almost anybody can do it, and almost any time. And old globes are just as easy to etch, or re-etch, as brand new ones. And since the globes are standard sizes, globes moved around all over, usually without the RR company even being involved. So there are many etched globes around, but the stamped letters in the lantern metal are much harder to add or alter.  Posted Friday, May 18, 2018 by RJMc

A. My mistake. In my haste i didn’t release that railroadaina cut about half of my original post off. Here’s more info. I also have a ton of pictures i could send also. -1906-1908 Adams and Westlake NO. 39 bell bottom double guard wire railroad lantern with inside wick raiser (not outside) -8 ice spikes under the base of the bell bottom -the chimney is labeled “The Adams and Westlake Company/ Chicago New York/ G.T.R / Patented May 28, 1895” -Blue 5 3/8” Corning globe, etched on the outside “G.R.&I.Ry.” Also it has the patent date embossed at the top outside reading “PAT DEC 30 1902 NO 717 501” -Also its embossed on the inside very faintly “SONORA RY” which is only visible with light behind the globe- -The globe in my opinion is in a very good condition, no cracking, major chips or flea biting. It does have one small internal chip on both the top and bottom openings. -The burner is labeled on the wick raiser (THE P&A MFG CO) it appears to be possibly affixed to bell bottom (possibly for Icey conditions?). Nothing obvious i can see though. -No writing on the bell bottom what so ever. -The general condition of the lantern is poor to fair, lots of dents on the bell. Also it has some warpage though the bell into the burner. -The original nickel plating is showing in some small spots but not much, it was painted silver at some point -Very little to no rust though out, some surface rust inside the chimney though. -Before i knew it rarity i tested it using tiki torch fuel, no leaks or other problems. Posted Friday, May 18, 2018 by JO

 Q3461 RR Carbide Lamp?  I came across your website while trying to find info on a recent carbide lamp I acquired. I’ve seen quite a few carbide lamps but have never seen a lantern like this one. I live in West Virginia and carbide lamps are easy to find. This one is more like a railroad lantern. Has no markings. It is missing a threaded pressure cap. Do you recognize this? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2018 by Don Z.   Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q3458 B&M Steel Guard Lantern  I just picked up this lantern at a flea market. The condition is neither thrilling, nor atrocious. Alas, the burner is lacking. But there’s something that has me puzzled. There’s this copper, or brass tag of sorts, soldered onto the chimney. It is stamped 'A 1 6 4 2'. Any idea why that tag is there, what it could mean? Also, something else strange. See that dark stuff, that looks like old paint or something? Well, it’s really tough, but it can be chipped off. And underneath, there’s solder. So that raises a few questions for me- Why was there solder there What's the black stuff? Is it some kind of oxidation? Seems more like paint. If it was painted, how come the paint’s all cleanly gone from everywhere else? The patent dates are a little hard to read, but the latest one I could read seems to be '97. I’ve read that collectors generally use the latest patent date on this make of lantern, as a way to approximate around when the lantern was manufactured. Any further tips, corrections, anything I should know about considering its age? Any thoughts, or answers you might have for me, are greatly appreciated. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, May 13, 2018 by Ellie F   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. See prior Q's 3135 and 3118 which talk about the uses and circumstances for numbered (and usually tagged) lanterns. (Just put the Q number in the search box.) As to the 'black stuff' I can't tell what you are referring to....is it something that coated the whole lantern? Posted Monday, May 14, 2018 by RJMc

 Q3453 Conductor's Lantern ID?  Can anyone help me identify this lantern? Solid brass. Has (what I assume to be) a whale oil burner. Also has a screw-in globe retainer. Looks like a conductor's lantern, but I'd love to know the manufacturer and/or model. I’ve been told it could be a Parmalee & Bonnell. There is a patent date of 1871 on the bottom. Any help is appreciated!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, May 4, 2018 by AD   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. I believe this lantern is a CT ham model either number 1 or 3. This lantern is considered to be a conductor lantern, sometimes given to conductors for retirement gifts. This lantern should polish up nice with some care and patience. Nice find! Posted Friday, May 4, 2018 by RR Gal

A. Thanks for the response RR Gal! But, I have both of the lanterns you mention (CT Ham #1 and #3) in my collection, and while it shares some similarities, it's definitely not either. Quite a bit smaller than a #1 with a different bell, and with a very different profile than a #3. Posted Friday, May 4, 2018 by AD

A. This is an early Steam Gauge & Lantern Co. product, possibly their No. 3. See Barrett, p. 216. Artist’s rendition shows step in the base, but not made that way. The patent stamp is Parmelee & Bonnell, also seen on early successor SG&L products. This lantern dates to mid- to late-1870s. Posted Monday, May 7, 2018 by ASwoyer

 Q3449 Lantern Info Needed  Can you give me any information on this lantern? It was in my great aunt's basement in Iowa. There are no markings other than what is noted on the bottom and no globe (although I'd like to know what kind of globe this takes). It appears to be all brass. Thank you.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, April 19, 2018 by Pam   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  Chicago Manufacturing Company was in existence from 1850? to 1874, located at 43 and 45 Franklin Street, Chicago. At the time that it was sold the company was owned by Joseph Dennis and Henry Wheeler and they sold it to Adams and Westlake. The October 24, 1865 patent may be referring to James Irwin's patent number 50591. Chicago Manufacturing held the rights to that patent starting in 1868. This may be a #7 Champion conductors lantern. See pages 42 and 45 in "The Illustrated Encyclopedia Of Railroad Lighting, Volume 1-The Railroad Lantern" by Richard C. Barrett. Also see page 124 and 125 in "Lanterns That Lit Our World" by Anthony Hobson. It is hard to say what globe this lantern uses, start by measuring the height, see if it might be 5 and 3/8 inches tall. That would probably be a common #39 globe which is readily available. If that is the wrong height than give us the correct height along with the diameter of the top and bottom openings and the widest width of the bulge and we can determine what globe will fit.  Posted Friday, April 20, 2018 by KM

 Q3448 Lantern ID Needed  Can anyone help identify this lantern? I am wanting to restore it. Thank you.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, April 18, 2018 by MB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  This is what's left of a New England Glass Company fixed globe lantern that was made around 1855 to 1875. Good luck with the restoration because you are missing the globe, burner and tank. See pages 22 and 23 in "The Illustrated Encyclopedia Of Railroad Lighting, Volume 1-The Railroad Lantern" by Richard C. Barrett.  Posted Friday, April 20, 2018 by KM

 Q3446 Lantern ID?  What kind of lantern is this? I found this lantern in a market in the South of France. The fresnels are plastic.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, April 11, 2018 by EW, Sweden   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The lantern appears to be a traffic warning lantern - used at road construction sites and the like. It is not a railroad lantern. See Link 1 for a picture of a similar lantern.  Link 1  Posted Thursday, April 12, 2018 by JEM

 Q3445 Lantern Age?  I found this lantern and trying to find out the year it was made. Think it says defense lantern spd co. Then it says n.y and on the front it says no.0 perfect.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, April 5, 2018 by DR   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This is a "barn" style tubular lantern, and not a railroad lantern. It looks nothing at all like any railroad lantern. It may be a Defiance Lantern and Stamping Company product. If so, it may be similar or the same as a Defiance No. 0 Regular Tubular Lantern - made from 1901 to the 1930s, according to information in Hobson's book, "Lanterns That Lit Our World".  Posted Saturday, April 7, 2018 by JEM

 Q3440 Lantern Info Needed  I picked this up for $10 at estate sale. Can’t find any history for lettering on top D & R.G RR . It looks like it might be missing a ring around the globe area. I can’t find one like it on internet to compare to.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, March 17, 2018 by Don D   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The D&RGRR is for the Denver & Rio Grande Railroad. You did very well in your find for $10. Maybe post a photo of "the ring around the globe area". Nice work on your find! Posted Saturday, March 17, 2018 by LN

A. Wow, you are so lucky. Lucky that you found this mint condition Star headlight lantern for 10 bucks. Lucky that it also had a MM Buck fount in mint condition!! Lucky that you found this website!! Lucky that you took wonderful sharp & detailed pictures that all the western collectors can drool over!! Lucky that you were so ignorant of the internet that simply typing in D&RG would gain you a wealth of info on the Denver and Rio Grande railroad. But you found this website and were able to post a message and download pics!! And lucky that you posted it on St. Patrick's Day!!! The only thing better would be if you posted this on April one!!! Mr Lucky!!! I found a Union Pacific Big Boy one time, just sitting on a siding, but I could not carry it home on my skateboard. But hey, thanks, we all need a good laugh from time to time.  Posted Sunday, March 18, 2018 by GWS

A. Not real sure what that (Mr. Lucky)is all about but, what color Globe would this Lantern normally have. Thinking about buying a replica to display it. Posted Tuesday, March 20, 2018 by Don D

A. Some people aren't happy to see others find nice things I guess. Jealousy does funny things to people. Anyway, most typically it would have had a clear or "white" globe in it for standard use. If you are looking for any color in particular or a nice original marked or unmarked globe instead of a re-pop that you'll typically find on a particular 4 letter internet auction site, there are several website based dealers you can probably find a nice globe at a reasonable price with a simple google search. You might also be able to find an original font for it. It is a very nice find and congrats. Posted Tuesday, March 20, 2018 by FC

A. Don D; W.T.Kirkman (LINK 1) is your one stop source for many parts for old lanterns, including a globe for your fine piece. Look at the Replacement Glass link on the left side of Kirkman's page -- One reason for confusion over the initials "D&RG" is that the Rio Grand reorganized in 1920-1921 and became the "D&RGW". You, being a wise collector (not a wise-@$$ with a keyboard) were likely searching for the exact letters"D&RG", and not finding much. Glad you found this site. Please know that MOST collectors who respond to questions on this site are happy to share legit information, not sarcastic drivel. ---- .... Red Bread Link 1  Posted Wednesday, March 21, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. From your photo it appears the lower horizontal wire guard is missing. Replacing this piece is a fairly easy restoration / fabrication. Finding the replacement clips however is going to be the tough part (note the clips where the upper horizontal and vertical wires come together). Your best bet is to attend a railroadiana show where you will find boxes of lantern parts. It will take some hunting but you may be able to find a frame like yours and salvage both the lower horizontal wire and clips. While you are at the show be sure to keep an eye out for an original globe too. Having your lantern complete, right and tight will make a nice find even better. Good luck. Posted Friday, March 23, 2018 by Ex Sou Ry

 Q3439 Lamp Info Needed  Would anyone happen to know anything about this lamp/lantern? There are no markings on it. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, March 15, 2018 by Jerry M.   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. What do you think folks ? I am guessing a Hiram Piper switch light with a bunch of modifications over the years. Posted Thursday, March 15, 2018 by HVT

A. I'm wondering about it being a Peter Gray lamp but modified. That lens opening is pretty small and similar to my Peter Gray Maine Central lamp. This is a WAG though. Posted Thursday, March 15, 2018 by PK

A. That deep edged "Portobello Mushroom" cap on the lamp is a dead giveaway. This lamp is from INDIA. I don't know much about them, but many of them have shown up on the Net in recent years. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Thursday, March 15, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Jerry M. , could you please take one red and one green of the lenses off and write back and let us know what the lettering around the edge of the lens says? That would be a BIG research help! Thanks, ---- .... Red Beard Posted Thursday, March 15, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Assuming the lens is original to the Lamp. Posted Friday, March 16, 2018 by LC

A. Here ya' go. check out this site to see what i was talking about in the previous post. It's called Infiniti India http://www.infinitiindustrialfurniture.com/antique-railway-lamp-1779639.html Posted Friday, March 16, 2018 by TE

A. Likewise Red Beard.......I'm sure that's an INDIA product from that site that's mentioned in the FAKE category on this site. I have a matching pair of platform lamps that I purposely bought off of Ebay (real cheap)a couple years back, just out of curiosity. Visually, from a distance, they actually look good but there is no wind baffling of any kind and the doors don't fit tight. You couldn't even use a candle in them and keep it lit. There was a cheap little tin font like you'd use in a craft product for looks only. I put a little kerosene in the one and it leaked immediately. The lens is a standard clear fresnel but it's hammered on with a strip of metal and not a drawband with a screw. AS i said, at a distance, it could pass for real. Up close, to those of us familiar with these.....No way! Posted Friday, March 16, 2018 by TE

A. Hey TE, good to hear from you; been a while -- What does it say on the rim of the lenses in your lamps? How is the quality of the color in those lenses? ---- .... Red Beard Posted Saturday, March 17, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Forgot to answer your other question. The single lens is clear and of standard quality for typical modern fresnel lenses.  Posted Sunday, March 18, 2018 by TE

A. YES....It has been awhile but I regularly check the site. The lenses in both, along the rim, have the following molded in: F89 MM 5 3/8 136 MMDIA There are no manufacturer marks on the lens or the lamp. After pulling them out and looking at them again, they aren't junk by any means. There's some heft to the metal and some craftsmenship in the overall construction. There's even a peep hole in the lower third of the body. They seem to have copied a really old design.....like pre 1900. There's just no wind proofing in the works. And as mentioned, the font is a cheap non-railroad item. These could easily fool a novice or non collector. TE  Posted Sunday, March 18, 2018 by TE

 Q3438 Marine Lantern?  I have a lantern that I cleaned up and clear coated. It looks like a marine style lantern with no makers mark. I found a picture similar to it in Anthony Hobson’s book 'Lanterns That Lit Our World' Book Two, similar to Helvig lanterns. The burner is marked BB&C Co. Maybe Bristol Brass Co.? It accepts a common barn size globe 6- 5/8 tall. The cold blast globes seem to fit better than the hot blast style. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, March 11, 2018 by Nick   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Might be Bridgeport Brass.... Posted Monday, March 26, 2018 by BobF

 Q3437 C&NW RR vs RY?  I have an early tall globe Adams & Westlake lantern that is marked C & NW RR on the rim. The globe is marked C&NW Ry. Most of the Chicago & Northwestern lanterns I’ve seen are marked 'Railway' instead of 'Railroad' Were earlier lanterns marked in this matter?  Posted Sunday, March 11, 2018 by NSG   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Before the "Adams" and "Reliable" lanterns, Chicago & Northwestern lanterns were routinely marked "RR" instead of "RY". Older keys and locks were also marked with RR. Posted Thursday, March 15, 2018 by BobF

 Q3434 Handlan Item  I picked this up the other day. The guy said it was for a semaphore light or a switch lamp with a slide-open door. He said that when the railroads started to switch from kero to electric they converted to this type of electric. It's made by Handlan. On the front it says Pat Apld for. On the other end it says Handlan St Louis USA. The glass is about 4 3/4 inches; the base is 4 inches wide and about 6 inches long. It's made of aluminum. Can anybody tell me what they really used it for? Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, March 4, 2018 by RT   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Hello RT,This light unit was used by railroads to convert their kerosene/oil burning lamps into slightly more modern electric lamps,yet used the original lamp body and mounting hardware.It probably was cost effective for them to do this as railroads were notoriously cheap by nature.If you look closely at the footprint of the unit's base,it will conform exactly to an AAR standard 31 ounce rectangular oil fount which Handlan,Dressel and Adlake all used in certain versions of their signal lamps.By making it an exact fit,the focus of the light unit was still correct in relation to the lense center.Some of these conversion units had a feature whereby the height of the electric lamp socket could be raised up or down for exact focus.This particular lamp socket would most likely have had a screw-in signal bulb adapter to accommodate a signal standard SC base style bulb which was a low voltage bulb with precision focused filament, but not all lines used these bulbs in these old lamp conversions.I don't want to overload you with info but I speak from 40 years of experience in the signal dep't of a class 1 railroad and am now retired. DJB Posted Tuesday, March 6, 2018 by DJB

A. thank you djb for the info what year did they use these Posted Wednesday, March 7, 2018 by rt

A. thank you djb for your help Posted Wednesday, March 7, 2018 by rt

A. Hi RT,Its hard to say when these conversions first started to be used but its safe to say that it was when the rural areas of the country started to get electricity,so my guess would be the 40's and later.Some of these conversions could go back much earlier and used low voltage lamps lit by DC from what we called primary batteries,or those that were activated chemically with caustic soda,lasted approx. 1 year and didn't need to be charged by electricity.Railroads started to send electricity down to signal locations via line wire once it was available and were able to save considerable maintenance costs by not having to fill,clean and maintain kerosene burners every week.As time went on,these old converted kerosene signal lamps were replaced by modern electric signal lamps specifically designed for this purpose with better optics and a more intense illumination. DJB Posted Wednesday, March 7, 2018 by DJB

 Q3432 Hiram Piper Lanterns  I have a question about a Hiram Piper railway lantern. The lantern is the larger black colour, 4 lens caboose style stamped H.L.P. on very top lid ,and also stamped C.N.R. on the side. It has 3 blue plastic lens and 1 red lens. The person says it was never used and was made in Kingston Ontario, being sold as new old stock. My question is: Were these lanterns ever made in Kingston Ontario as per sheet of paper that comes with lantern? There are no markings of 'Montreal' at all on this lantern. Thank you.  Posted Thursday, March 1, 2018 by Jim L.   Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q3431 Mystery William Westlake Tall Lantern Base  Can anyone advise what type of lantern this base was made for ? (Or point me to a picture?) It is stamped W WESTLAKE PATD with one 1864 patent date and two from 1865. It has a small sliding door on the side and there are two bent wire 'clips' that work with what amounts to thumb latches (hidden below the rolled rim). You squeeze the 'mushroom' parts and the wire loops go back under the rim; then released they come back out (as shown). Guessing that a globe (?) is placed on the outer flat rim and the clips hold it in place – they are there to hold something (maybe another metal part with slots they go into?) We are able to find information about William Westlake but nothing about the type of lantern this would have been made for. Thank you for any ideas !   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, February 28, 2018 by JS   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Your lantern part is a bottom section of a domestic lantern and the photo shown is of a very similar lantern. Normally these type of lanterns had a fixed glass globe that was cemented into the top and bottom metal sections of the lantern. However because yours has the spring loaded tabs I suspect that this part is for a removable (replaceable) glass globe which was patented by William Westlake at the dates shown on your part. The other photo shown shows a spring loaded Sangster font that would have been similar to one that would have clipped underneath the part you have. It would have contained the fuel and wick and could be easily removed to add fuel and trim the wick. The sliding tab you have on your part would open to light & extinguish the flame.  Link 1  Posted Sunday, March 4, 2018 by D.M.

 Q3426 Dressel Lamp Info Wanted  I'm looking for help identifying what this lamp came off of. I’m thinking tail lamp? One red lens with two clear. Only markings on the lamp is a brass badge that says Dressel Arlington NJ USA. The only thing I can find similar in design comes up on the internet if you search for 'Belson Chicago Square Railroad Lantern Lamp'. Thank you for any help.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, February 11, 2018 by TB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q3425 Lamp Info Needed  I would like to know just exactly what I have here. I've looked around and can't seem to find one exactly like this, and I have two of them. It has Armstrong [Armspear?] writing on it and it has the number 120 on the stand. It also has a tag that has a lot of date's on it but it's very hard to read. Can you help me with this issue? Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, February 6, 2018 by Mike A   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The bases, which have the tapered socket to receive the top of a switch stand rod, give them away immediately as switch target lamps.  Posted Wednesday, February 7, 2018 by RJMc

A. A nice pair of Armspear Railroad switch lamps. Posted Wednesday, February 7, 2018 by LF

 Q3423 Marta Torino Lamp  What a wonderful website! This was exactly what I have been searching for recently.....though sadly, I still am unable to locate ANY information about this 'Marta Torino' oil lamp. The person that I acquired it from wasn't able to tell me anything about it. The name sounds Italian - the style is quite similar to WWII German Carbide Railroad Lamps. I would very much appreciate any information that you might be able to provide! Thank you,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, February 6, 2018 by Gil   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. I searched around and found several ebay listings for Marta Torino lamps and lanterns, but not an exact match. The listings say they are from Italy and paint is usually military green, from WWI - WWII era. Good luck - hope that will be enough of a lead to pursue to find out more about this company.  Posted Saturday, February 17, 2018 by JMS

 Q3420 Adlake Lantern  I have had this lantern since about 1962 or so. It was given to me by a railroad man (I was about six years old at the time) at the depot in Sidney, MT. The depot served the Great Northern and the Northern Pacific. This is an N.P.R.Y lantern from 3-42. I used to hang around the stock yard and got to know a couple of the caboose guys. I have a couple of questions about it, but let me start by saying that I have no plans for the lantern other than to use it. Not selling or restoring. It works pretty well, even though the packing and wick are original, or at least circa 1962. I have used it infrequently over the years but plan on using it more for camping in the future. Since I have had it it has always been painted black. It may have been given a fresh coat of paint when I got it, who knows? Six year olds don't pay much attention to that sort of stuff. I notice that most of the lanterns pictured on your website are not painted. Were these lanterns used like that, or were they all painted? If they were painted, were they all black? Are these lanterns plated steel? If so, is that plating durable? Thanks,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, January 22, 2018 by Tom S.   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Railroad lanterns belonged to railroaders. It was their responsibility. Some guys would mark their lanterns so they could identify theirs. Some guys may have painted the whole thing. Sometimes railroads painted them anyway. Most, however, were not painted. Lanterns are usually tin. They are very durable. Again, plating was an option. Since you use the lantern keep it as is. I will point out though, that if you do not use it, you should remove the packing (batting) from the tank. The material (cotton waste) absorbs moisture and rots out the tank. As I said though, since you use the lantern and keep it filled, that will not be an issue. You can still remove the batting if you wish, anyway, and it will not affect the operation of the lantern. Posted Monday, January 22, 2018 by JN

A. Thanks, JN, I appreciate the information. Fortunately the burner is in really good condition. Tom Posted Monday, January 22, 2018 by Tom

 Q3419 BR&P Lantern  Any info on this lantern would be greatly appreciated. Belonged to my Grandfather. Defiance Lantern with BR&P stamped on top. Globe is etched PRR and probably not original.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, January 22, 2018 by AC   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. BR&P is the Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh. The line later became part of the B&O. The PRR also served Buffalo. Maybe someone raided a supply cabinet somewhere when they broke their lantern globe broke.  Posted Monday, January 22, 2018 by JN

A. The BR&P went southwest from Buffalo and Rochester to the Pittsburg area. The PRR also operated just about everywhere in that territory, so not at all unlikely that consumable parts like lantern globes would get traded around, either during employee's regular service on the RR's or afterward.  Posted Wednesday, January 24, 2018 by RJMc

A. Defiance is a fabulous maker to find ! The twisted wire models are scarce, as the wires tend to be very fragile. What a fine family heirloom to keep and treasure.  Posted Sunday, January 28, 2018 by JMS

 Q3416 CPR Markers  I just bought a matching pair of CPR Piper marker lanterns. I’m wondering if you can help with two things: (1): What is the best way to strip and 'de-rust' the lanterns before a new coat of paint? I’ve read about a lye bath possibly working, but the lamps look tin to me, so I don’t know how well that would work. (2): The lamps came with plastic lenses - are these original to the lamps? They are stamped 'HLP', but plastic seems odd. Thanks, I appreciate any advice you have to give!!! Thanks so much for your help! I’m really looking forward to getting these things back to their former glory!! Cheers,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, January 19, 2018 by Brett R   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This works for me although I'm sure some will violently disagree. Regular paint stripper to remove the paint. Then a good washing with soap and water to remove the stripper. Dry then "rust remover" (Naval Jelly) found in Lowes/Home Depot applied with a paint brush. Followed by a steel wool rub. Once the rust is gone, wash/dry again then primer and a spray can of Black satin paint. All my switch lamps have glass Kopp or Corning glass lens but they're not Piper lamps.. Posted Saturday, January 20, 2018 by LF

A. If you will enter the word "Stimsonite" into the 'search by word or phrase' box to the left of the text here, it will bring up many prior Q's discussing the use of plastic lenses, including specifically on Piper lamps on the Canadian roads. Plastic lenses seem to have been put on some lamps direct from the factory and as early as 1950, so yours may well be original.  Posted Saturday, January 20, 2018 by RJMc

A. Likewise, I've never had any ill effects from using regular paint striper along with techniques described above. Also, like LF, I am sure some people will shudder at the suggestion. Posted Saturday, January 20, 2018 by TE

A. Regular glass lenses in these lamps would be unlikely to be affected by the kinds of chemicals being discussed here. However,strong paint strippers (Strypeeze, etc.) which contain very strong solvents might fog or even dissolve plastic lenses, so I would be very careful and either remove the plastic lenses entirely, or possibly test a very small area before exposing the main surfaces of the plastic lenses to such strong chemical agents. Posted Sunday, January 21, 2018 by RJMc

A. Hi Brett, ..well I'm the one constant voice on here against repainting things; I think vehement might be a better term for my resistance to repainting though. – Those are in good shape, but have lost quite a bit of paint.-- LF has some good ideas on stripping it down. I certainly wouldn't use the lye bath. They are in too good of a shape for that. -- RJMc's caution about taking the lenses out is a MUST! – Those are original lenses. Most PIPER lamps that show up for sale have Original 'HLP' marked plastic lenses in them; so, keep those in as good a shape as you can. Alcohol is a good cleaner for plastic lenses. Many of the Piper markers I see still have a shiny finish to them. Try using gloss black on them. None of the satin or matte paints I've ever seen look authentic. All lamps started out with a gloss finish.--- Here's something I've never mentioned before: Start with a nice high gloss finish, like Rustolium, that has dried and cured for a few months. If you have access to an actual paint sprayer, not an air brush, give the painted parts (NOT those plastic lenses, though) a quick light dust with lacquer thinner only. You want the spray to be so light that it evaporates a half second after it hits the lamp. Give it one shot, and after that completely dries, maybe one more. (too much lacquer thinner or having it set wet on the lamp will curdle and peal the new paint, so you want just enough to etch the very surface) That will give your gloss finish a very accurate "fogged" look for a lamp that has been out in the elements for about a decade. – Do PRACTICE on a few painted tin cans first and see what results you can get. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Sunday, January 21, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Thank you very much for all the information you guys! I've gone ahead and chemically stripped them as suggested, and after some rust removal, they are starting to come along. Fortunately I have access to an automotive paint booth and corresponding high grade paint, so I have high hopes for the final product. I'll post some pictures when I'm done :) Thanks again!!! Cheers.  Posted Saturday, February 3, 2018 by Brett R

A. Hi Brett, please read the Link 1 article. -- It looks like those lamps are made of pre-galvanized sheet steel. Handlan, in the last years, did this too. Galvanized metal does not hold paint well, especially over time. -- older lamps were hot dipped in terne metal and painted with Gilsonite paint, which stuck to the terne for decades. -- The Link article addresses this. (I'm also pasting the URL here, as long links tend to fail in the Link feature on this page) (LINK: https://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/home-diy/painting/how-to-paint-galvanized-metal.htm) This is a case where you might want to lightly bead blast the lamp prior to painting it. ---- ....Red Beard Link 1  Posted Monday, February 5, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Thanks for the link, Red Beard. I did as you suggested, and they turned out great. A chemical strip, then a bead blast and sand blast in the rougher areas, followed by a high quality paint really worked well. I was also able to put a lightbulb inside by running the cord through a drain hole in the bottom, thus no drilling or modications. In case anybody cares, I've uploaded the full set of before/after pictures here: (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lrg-Y0wJl6c9BG_M5Q2RA3rVMTtgBqi4). Thanks again for the help, you guys! Cheers.  Link 1  Posted Sunday, May 20, 2018 by Brett R

 Q3415 Lantern/Lamp Info?  I found this lantern and can't find anything about it. It has a Adams & Westlake tage. I was wondering if you can help me?   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, January 15, 2018 by MK   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. It has the same lens on the back side. The burner slides in and out. I can email you more pictures  Link 1  Posted Monday, January 15, 2018 by Matthew

A. Adams and Westlake used this basic square body with the 'cookie cutter' creased round top between 1880 and 1899 to serve many different purposes. Possibilities include semaphore lamps (does it have a smaller lens or opening to the rear?); tail end lights, station lights and marine-related lights such as drawbridge markers. Another possibility is a theater footlight. The formed wire hanger and the pedestal on your light are unusual, but it is hard to tell how they were used without some dimensions. More pix would help, particularly of the burner.  Posted Monday, January 15, 2018 by RJMc

 Q3413 ATSF Lamp Info?  Does anyone have any info on this lamp? It came from the Santa Fe RR pass. rear car and is stamped 'right'. I need to know what color the lenses were and what the front and side lenses reference. Also the back holder - what purpose it served? The manufacturer's tag is missing so the make is unknown. Any help is appreciated.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, January 4, 2018 by Paul   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The oval missing tag shape suggests an oval brass Adams and Westlake tag was once on this lamp. If by "back holder" you mean the bracket this lamp would presumably rotate on (if it does), it fits into a corresponding tapered holder that would be on the RIGHT side of whatever car, caboose, or engine this lamp was designed for.  Posted Friday, January 5, 2018 by JEM

A. No not the bracket but the round item with the cover that rotates.I was thinking that was for extra lens Thank you for your reply Posted Friday, January 5, 2018 by Paul

A.  OOPS! – I misspoke, Santa Fe used RED and YELLOW in their Marker Lamps; so there would have also been a YELLOW color disk in there. Santa Fe markers were Red to the rear and Yellow to the sides. So, your lamp would have carried green, red and yellow color disks. ---- …. Red Beard  Posted Friday, January 5, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Hi Paul – What you have is an Adlake #85 “Acme Engine Classification Lamp” - See LINK 1 below - JEM is correct that the oval mark on the side of the lamp would have been where the original Adlake tag would have been. The oval Adlake tag stopped being used somewhere around the 1920s and some collectors claim that they didn't exist, but they certainly did. If not otherwise marked as to ownership, some collectors confuse oval imprints, like the one on the side of your lamp as having been from a missing New York Central Lines emblem, which was applied to early NYC lamps, and was of a similar size and shape. Your lamp though is clearly a unique Adlake design and clearly marked Santa Fe on the shoulder of the lamp. – Who told you that it came off of passenger car? That is possible, though unlikely. – Let's start with what it is and was intended for; As a Classification (class) Lamp, and by Santa Fe practices, it would have been mounted on the side of the smoke box, with the lenses facing forward and to the side. (Some roads mounted class lamps on the front of the smoke box) If the train the engine was pulling was a scheduled train, the class lamps would not be lit. If the train were an “extra” (non-scheduled)train, the class lamps would be lit with clear lenses, called “white” in the rule books. If the train was a scheduled train running in two or more sections (done when there were more cars than one train could handle) the LAST section would have unlit class lamps, thus indicating that section as the last section of the scheduled train, and all preceding sections would run with lit class lamps showing a green light to the front and side, indicating that additional sections were following. - Yours is an early design lamp. It came with clear optical, or “Fresnel”, lenses which focused the lamp light into a strong beam of light. The clear lens was mounted in the hinged frame, which your photo shows in the open position. To change the color indication to green, a colored glass disk was inserted behind the clear optical lens, and the frame around the clear lens held the color disk in place. These colored glass disks were stored in the “back holder” you mention. This “holder” looks like another lens opening, but with a rotating cover or door on it. As engines frequently needed to travel backwards down the line, red glass disks were also stored in this holder. When traveling down the line in reverse (a backing movement), the class lamps could be used as Marker Lamps, protecting the rear end of the movement. (when backing, the front end of the engine was actually the rear end of the train from an operational perspective.) When backing, the class lamps (now acting as Marker Lamps) were fitted with colored glass disks displaying red to the rear of the MOVEMENT (the physical front of the engine), and green to the sides. The colored glass disks allowed the class lamp to serve several functions, simply by using different colors, or no color, behind the clear (white) optical lenses. – Now, as to your lamp's use as a Marker Lamp on the last car of a passenger train; it is entirely possible that your lamp could have been used as a marker in passenger train service, as described above, fitted with green and red glass inserts. The Santa Fe certainly had an abundance of actual marker lamps, but lamps like yours were pressed into service as train markers when a terminal was short on markers. As markers were removed and serviced at depots and caboose tracks, and then placed on the next train leaving town, a location could run out if more trains that day were leaving than coming in. This would be especially true in passenger service as passenger cars did not carry markers with them, as cabooses did. – Then, finally to the question about being marked “Right”. Back to the original intended purpose of the lamp as a Class Lamp, with two lenses, mounted in the lamp body at 90° apart; if you took your lamp and hung it on the Left side of the engine, the lens intended to face forward would then be facing backwards, and the colored filter holder would be facing the front of the engine. Thus, you needed to have one configuration for the right side of the engine (yours) and another configured for the Left side. (just like the the turn signal assembly on a modern automobile; they're not interchangeable) Hope this is of some help! ---- .... Red Beard Link 1  Posted Friday, January 5, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Hi Red Beard thanks for your reply. This is very good info. I got this from a man that worked for the SanteFe in LaJunta, CO.He is the one that told me it came off of a passenger car, but your info seems better to me after studying on it.I have read about these being used on steam loco.but didn't know I had this one until your reply. Would you know where I might find those disks.I really appreciate you taking time to reply on this. thanks Paul Posted Sunday, January 7, 2018 by Paul

A. Paul, you're very welcome. Glad to pass some of this accumulated knowledge on where it's needed. That is a really great piece, and in good shape for its age. Your first project is to find the right clear Fresnel lenses for the lamp. A number of older class lamps had 5-1/2 inch diameter clear lenses. Those are almost impossible to find. There are some 5-1/2 inch lenses around that are from the interior of signals, but they have the Fresnel steps on the front of the lens, and I can't say if I've ever seen a clear one. I hope they are a more common size, such as 4-1/2, 5 inch or 5-3/8 inch. (judging by their size compared to the lamp body, they may be 4-1/2 inch) Clear lenses show up on eBay from time to time; you just have to search constantly under "railroad lens". As to the color filters, you are going to need to figure out the diameter needed. The color filter drops into that half circle rim on the back of the hinged lens holder, and is usually a slightly different diameter than the Fresnel lens. Use a kids school compass and draw several circles and cut them out of light cardboard, like a cereal box, until you get a slightly loose fit, and measure it. You may find some on eBay that will work. If not take that cardboard disk to a stained glass studio and have them show you some quality colored glass close to lens colors and have them cut some filters for you. Hate to say it, but that may be the closest you can get, depending on the size needed. (that's a pretty old lamp) -- Now as to the passenger car aspect; it occurred to me that it might have been used on an observation car or a business car, as those did carry their own markers with them. The fact that your lamp would have had those clear lenses in it (and its left side mate) would have made the lamps really stand out and look sharp, so it's possible that an official may have snagged those for use on his business car because of the unique appearance. It's one of those questions we'll never know. That car body bracket laying on the table behind the lamp is correct for the style of mounting foot on your lamp (again, old), BUT, it is a corner mount bracket, that would have been mounted to the corner of a passenger car or a caboose. Your lamp would have needed a bracket that was mounted flat on the side of the car. A corner mount bracket with your lamp would have the lenses pointing off at a 45° angle, not straight back; so again, who knows. -- Please do write back and let us all know how your project goes! ---- .... Red Beard Posted Sunday, January 7, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Hi Red Beard again I say thanks, you have been very helpful. If I am able to obtain any more info or locate disks & lens I will be happy to report back. Here hoping I can complete my project. Paul Posted Monday, January 8, 2018 by Paul

 Q3412 Kelly Lantern Information Needed  I’m looking for information on this Kelly Lantern. I have a friend who thinks it may not all be authentic for starters. But I think it is. Here is what we do know: The lantern is marked on the bottom Kelly & Co Rochester. There are no markings on the red globe that I could find but does have some bubbles and looks like an original globe to the lantern because it fits snugly against the vertical wires; there is no space in between. The bell base is marked on the bottom with: Kelly & Co, Rochester and it is stamped inward not raised. There is another marking on the top of bell bottom but I can't make it out and I wasn't successful taking a picture either. Unfortunately someone a long time ago decided to paint this beautiful lantern with black paint which now is showing signs of deteriorating, meaning rust has appeared. Also someone tied two wire pieces on the top and bottom of where the globe is held in because some of the wires holding the globe encased have come loose. The bottom part kinda unscrews and is not hinged. The wick is two round tubes and there is no way to adjust the wick. When holding a magnet to it, it sticks everywhere except on the top piece. I don't want to cause more harm than good by trying to removing the paint but I suspect the top to be brass, and if you knew what you were doing you could remove the paint. The lantern stands 11 in. tall not including the handle which is 6 in. The red globe is approx. 5 1/2 in. long and approx 19 in. around in the fullest part, and there are a few scratches and air bubbles seen on the globe. Any help you could offer is appreciated!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, January 4, 2018 by EJ   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Get a can of paint remover at Wal Mart or some other store and remove the paint. Very easy to do, just follow instructions on the can. Won't harm the lantern in any way. The loose wires can be soldered or brazed back on. I have no information as to Kelly Lanterns. Posted Thursday, January 4, 2018 by LF

A. That the globe fits snugly against the guard wires without any space inbetween suggests to me that the globe isn't original. I've never seen a lantern where the guards actually touch the globe. They are meant to protect the globe from impact...but how can they do that if there's no buffer? Posted Thursday, January 4, 2018 by JP

A. Yes I hear what you are saying about being a buffer. That would be logical. Some one on another site showed me what a Kelly globe is shaped like by showing me a picture. But here is what I can't figure out. I looked at it again and the vertical wires are welded on top & bottom. As it is there is no way to get the globe out? So how was it ever exchanged? Is there anywhere that I could find more info that anyone knows about? I've searched online for Kelly lamps and there are almost non existent. Thanks! Posted Friday, January 12, 2018 by EJ

 Q3411 Safety Globes  When did they first start marking globes with 'Safety First'?  Posted Wednesday, January 3, 2018 by DRN   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This is a difficult question to answer with any precision, because markings on globes were purely optional to the purchasers; no markings were required at all, and any markings the purchaser ordered probably increased the cost. Lettering molded into the globes, usually the RR initials, began well before removable globes came into style (med-1800's), and the manufacturers were no doubt pleased to add anything the RR's wanted (at slight extra cost, of course). See the Link for the first pic which showed up on a quick search, from a 1918 Handlan publication about globes in the Archives section of this website, showing a "Safety First" globe. (Alco at: http://www.railroadiana.org/library/pgCat_Handlan1918.php) But the practice probably goes much further back on individual RR's.  Link 1  Posted Saturday, January 6, 2018 by RJMc

A. It's easier to answer where the slogan 'Safety First' came from, and when. The Link is to a PowerPoint presentation given at NASA; it claims that the slogan was originated and made popular about 1911 by the first director of the newly created Federal Bureau of Mines, Joseph Austin Holmes. The purpose of the Bureau was to try to reduce the terrible casualties then occurring in the mines. (The presentation also shows how the Bureau set up a special train for mine rescues, used for safety training at field sites when not at emergencies.) Of course the RR's and the mining industries are very closely related so the slogan no doubt moved rapidly into the RR industry, probably also driven by the Federal control of the RR's during WW I. Link: http://mtweb.mtsu.edu/rowell/presentations/01safetyfirstnasamsfcwords.ppt Link 1  Posted Saturday, January 6, 2018 by RJMc

A. Some further looking (see link, which is about British safety practices) credits the US C&NW RR as initiating the 'Safety First' movement. "In 1910,Ralph Richards initiated “Safety First” on the Chicago and North Western Railway, a movement that spread rapidly across the U.S. railroad system and ushered in a new safety culture....three years after its introduction in 1910,“Safety First” had spread over approximately 70% of U.S. railroad mileage." The Link notes that by 1913 the British Great Western Ry had a full-scale "Safety First" promotional campaign in effect systemwide. So it looks like the RR's were first on this, in 1910, and the mines followed after. But the speed with which the 'new culture' was adopted, worldwide, makes clear that society was ready for that message.  Link 1  Posted Saturday, January 6, 2018 by RJMc

 Q3408 Dietz Vestas in Europe  I am a lantern collector in Europe, The Netherlands to be precise. Recently I came across this set of Dietz Vesta NY lanterns, marked 4 - 45. Special is that they are unused. Since there is no US railroad over here the most obvious, I can assume, is that they where used by the US army during WW2. Is this correct? and is there evidence of? Which army group did use this type of lantern and for what specific purpose, if any? Many thanks for any help!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, December 29, 2017 by Wim   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. The date on them is 1945. Did the U.S. military ever operate your railroads? The US Military was involved with many railroad operations overseas and the Dietz Vesta was one of the most popular and reliable lanterns ever made for US railroads. Posted Saturday, December 30, 2017 by JN

A. The US Army did use the Dietz Vesta and not necessarily for Railroad use. Probably more to light up a tent at night. Many have a globe marked "US" and some are stamped "Ord Dept US Army". Just because yours are unmarked doesn't mean they aren't US Army issue. I think your correct in assuming they are WWII US Army lanterns. Posted Saturday, December 30, 2017 by LF

A. See prior question numbers 2690, 2402, 1946, 1665, and 740 for some of the earlier discussions about US Army lanterns and 1945 Dietz Vestas in particular. Just put the Q no. in the "By Question Number" search box, on the left of the text box, and hit 'Go' to see the extensive prior info. I don't think we know how many of these the US Gov't bought, but it was many, many, many!) Posted Saturday, December 30, 2017 by RJMc

 Q3407 Brass Lantern W/O Markings  I have been trying to find information on this brass lantern. There are no marking anywhere. Can any one identify this lantern? Lantern is 18 in. tall overall, 10 3/4 in. tall without handle.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, December 27, 2017 by MB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Hobson's "Lanterns That Lit Our World" shows an Adlake model, "The Queen", made from 1875 to 1910, that appears identical to the parts you have remaining. This includes the overall body shape, the closed bottom, the bail shape, the way the bail is fastened, and the round punched vent holes in top and bottom. LTLOW ALSO shows a Steam Gage and Lantern Co. model, one of the 'Conductor's' series, made (or at least sold) from 1881 to 1887, also substantially identical. Then there is the Dietz 'No. 3 Conductor's', identical except for no 'topknot' on top, made from 1888 to 1920. It is quite likely that other manufacturers produced and/or sold very similar models. And, since the lantern manufacturers at this time also traded ideas, designs, parts and even completed lantern stock, back and forth it is extremely difficult to pin down the actual manufacturer.  Posted Friday, December 29, 2017 by RJMc

 Q3400 Adlake Switch Lamp Information Needed  I have what I think is a very old Adlake switch lamp. On the outside of the door is a brass oval tag reading 'THE ADAMS & WESTLAKE COMPANY MAKERS CHICAGO'. There are two green and two red lenses, and they are held in by the soldered in shields - they are not removable. Each lens is about 6-1/4 inches in diameter and the red ones are flashed(!) on the outside and clear on the inside. Most of the lamp weight is in the glass, as the metal gauge is somewhat thin compared to more modern switch lamps. The lamp body is 8-1/4 inch square and about 9 inches tall. The round top has no markings. To fit properly, the kerosene tank should be about 5 inches in diameter. The lamp has a wood base I added as it is really tippy. I have never seen anything quite like this, including in 'The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Railroad Lighting', so any information would be appreciated. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, December 8, 2017 by JM   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This might be for nautical use; when permanently mounted to a pier or bridge the environment would not be as rough as on a switch stand. And I think the nautical side continued to use the square bodies much later than the RR's did, which might account for the more modern round top. Is there any kind of mounting base/fixture underneath the lamp? Posted Sunday, December 10, 2017 by RJMc

A. Hi - thanks for the insight. The mounting base post underneath is about 2" x 1-3/4", and it is about 2-1/2" long; it has a slight taper. The post is hollow, so it could fit over an appropriate sized rod, or into a tapered hole, which would give it much more stability. Actually the mounting base "top" is 5 x 5 inches and held by six rivets to the underside of the body. The body sheet metal is so thin it flexes and "pops" when the base moves. I hope this helps.  Posted Monday, December 11, 2017 by JM

A. Lamp mystery probably solved! The 1907 A & W catalog on this web site has a page showing Bridge Lamps - see Link 1. The No. 101 Bridge Lamp has a tapered mounting base post just like my lamp. A & W brags about a heavy steel body on their lamp, which mine most certainly does not have, so mine might be earlier(?). I found my lamp in Duluth, MN so perhaps it was used on a Northern Pacific Railroad bridge there. Thanks again to RJMc for pointing me in the right direction.  Link 1  Posted Tuesday, December 12, 2017 by JM